Mermaids | Exploring the Water Kingdom Part 1

Season 2 opens with an abridged version of Hans Christian Andersen’s The Little Mermaid and then moves into a wide-ranging conversation about mermaid mythology, from biblical references and Mesopotamian water gods to modern sightings and internet folklore. Mary and Haley connect story, theology, folklore, and cultural memory to ask what mermaid legends might reveal about humanity’s long fascination with the sea.

Be sure to hit that follow or subscribe button so you don't miss part 2! If you are enjoying the podcast please leave a kindly worded five star review or even a message on our website! 

In this episode:

• Mary reads an abridged version of The Little Mermaid and Haley reacts to the darker ending, especially the sacrifice, pain, and foam imagery.
• The hosts compare Disney’s version with Andersen’s 1837 tale and note how much of the original story is about loss, suffering, and longing for a soul.
• They discuss the idea that mermaids lack immortal souls, then connect that concept to Paracelsus, elementals, and older ideas about spirit beings in nature.
• Haley and Mary trace fish-human imagery back to Mesopotamia, including Ea, the Abzu, and the Abkalu, as an early example of water-based supernatural beings.
• They explore the distinction between mermaids and sirens, noting that sirens are bird-women in classical tradition while mermaids are water beings.
• The conversation turns to witchcraft symbolism, especially combs, mirrors, hair, and the idea of glamour or seduction magic.
• They compare mermaid traditions across cultures, including Japanese ningyo, Irish merrows, Russian rusalki, Greek nereids, and African and Caribbean water spirits such as Mami Water.
• Haley recounts the viral “Gerald the dolphin” story and the hosts discuss how modern satire, AI, and misleading documentaries blur the line between folklore and “evidence.”
• The episode closes with a strong claim that the ocean remains largely unexplored and that the water kingdom may still hold mysteries science has not explained.

Thank you for listening! 

Rebel Road theme music by: B3yondBeatz Tony Simms

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

The most familiar mermaid story of our time is that of the Little Mermaid. But have you heard the real story? The original tale? The one Disney adopted. This is an abridged version of Hans Christian Anderson's The Little Mermaid.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Far out in the ocean, the water is as blue as the petals of the loveliest cornflower and as clear as the purest glass. But is very deep too. It goes down deeper than any anchor rope, and many, many mountains would have to pile one on top of another to reach from the bottom to the surface of the sea. It is down deep that the sea folk live. From the deepest spot in the ocean rises the palace of the sea king. Its walls are made of coral and its high-pointed windows of the clearest amber, but the roof is made of shells that open and shut with the tide. The sea king was a widower, and his mother kept house, a clever woman, proud of her noble birth, and she was extremely fond of her granddaughter's six lovely girls. But the youngest was the most beautiful. Her skin was as soft and tender as a rose petal, and her eyes were as blue as the deep sea. She was an unusual child, quiet and wistful. Nothing gave the youngest princess such pleasure as to hear about the world of humans. Her old grandmother had to tell her all she knew about ships and cities and of people and animals. When you get to be fifteen, her grandmother said, you will be allowed to rise up out of the ocean and sit on the rocks in the moonlight to watch the great ship sailing by. You will see woods and towns too. On many an evening, the older sisters would rise to the surface, arm in arm, all five in a row. They had beautiful voices, more charming than those of any mortal beings. When a storm was brewing and they anticipated a shipwreck, they would swim before the ship and would sing most seductively of how beautiful it was at the bottom of the ocean. But people could not understand their song and mistook it for the voice of the storm. Nor was it for them to see the glories of the deep. When the ship went down, they were doomed, and it was dead men that reached the Sea King's palace. Oh, how I wish I were fifteen, the little smurmaid wailed. I know I shall love that world up there and all the people who live in it. But alas, the day came, and she too came to be fifteen. Her grandmother adorned her hair with lilies and placed pearls in her tail, a sign of her royal heritage, and with a swift goodbye, the little smurmaid was on her way to the surface. The sun had just gone down when her head rose above the surface, but the clouds still shone like gold and roses, and in the delicately tinted sky sparkled the clear gleam of the evening star. The air was mild and fresh, and the sea unruffled. A great three-master lay in view, with only one of its sails set, for there was not even the whisper of a breeze, and the sailors idled about in the rigging and on the yards. There was music and scening on the ship, and as night came on, they lighted hundreds of such brightly colored lanterns that one might have thought the flags of all nations were swinging in the air. The little mermaid swam right up to the window of the main cabin, and each time she rose with a swell, she could peep in through the clear glass panes at the crowd of brilliantly dressed people. The handsomest of them was a young prince. He could not be more than sixteen years old. It was his birthday, and that was the reason they all celebrated. Up on the deck the sailors were dancing and the prince appeared among them. A hundred or more rockets flew through the air, making it as bright as day. These startled the little mermaid so badly that she ducked under the water, but she soon peeped up again, and then it seemed as if all the stars in the sky were falling around her. Never had she seen such fireworks. Great suns spin around, splendid firefish floated through the blue air, and all these things were mirrored in the crystal clear sea. It was so brilliantly bright that you could see every little rope of the ship, and the people could be seen distinctly. Oh, how handsome the young prince was! He laughed and he smiled and shook people by the hand while the music rang out in the perfect evening. It got very late, but the little mermaid could not take her eyes off the ship and the handsome prince. There was a rumble deep down in the sea. They were in for a terrible storm, and the mariners made haste. The tall ship pitched and rolls as it sped through the angry sea. The waves rose up like towering black mountains as if they could break over the masthead. To the little mermaid, this seemed good sport, but to the sailors it was nothing of the sort. The ship creaked and labored, timbers gave way under the heavy blows, waves broke over the ship, the main mast snapped into like a wreath. The ship listed over on its side and water burst into the hold. Now the little mermaid saw that the people were in peril, and that she herself must take care to avoid the beams and wreckage tossed about by the sea. One moment it was as black as pitch, and she couldn't see a thing, and the next moment the lightning would flash so brightly that she could distinguish every soul on board. She watched closely for the young prince, and when the ship split in two, she saw him sinking down into the sea. At first she was overjoyed that he would be with her, but then she recalled that human people do not live under the water, and he could only visit her father's palace as a dead man. No, he should not die. So she swam in among all the floating planks and beams, completely forgetting that they might crush her. She dived through the waves and rowed their crest until at length she reached the young prince, who was no longer able to swim. His arms and legs were exhausted, his beautiful eyes closing. She held his head above water and let the waves take them. At daybreak, when the storm was over, not a trace of the ship was in view. The sun rose out of the waters, red and bright, and its beams seemed to bring the glow of life back to the cheeks of the prince, but his eyes remained closed. The mermaid kissed his forehead as she stroked his wet hair, and she kissed him again in hope that he would live. Bells began to rain in the bright white building, and a number of young girls came out onto the garden. The little mermaid swam away, and then she watched to see who would find the poor prince. In a little while, one of the young girls came upon him. Then she called for more people. The mermaid watched as the prince began to regain consciousness. She felt very unhappy when they led him away, as she dived sadly down into the water and returned to her father's palace. She had always been quiet and wistful, and now she became much more so. Her sisters asked her what she had seen on her first visit up to the surface, but she would not tell them a thing. Many evenings and many mornings she revisited the spot where she had left the prince. Finally, she couldn't bear it any longer. She told her secret to one of her sisters. Immediately all the other sisters heard about it. Come, little sister, said the other princesses, arm in arm. They rose from the water in a long row, right in front of where they knew the princess's palace stood. Now that she knew where he lived, many an evening and many a night she spent there in the sea, watching. Increasingly she grew to like human beings, and more and more she longed to live among them. There was so much she wanted to know. Her sisters could not answer all her questions, so she asked her old grandmother, who knew about the upper world. If men aren't drowned, the little mermaid asked, do they live forever? Don't they die as we die down here in the sea? Yes, the old lady said, they too must die, and their lifetimes are even shorter than ours. We can live to be three hundred years old, but when we perish, we turn into mere foam on the sea. We have no immortal soul, no life hereafter. We are like the green seaweed, once cut down, never grown again. Human beings, on the contrary, have a soul which lives forever, long after their bodies have turned to clay. It rises through thin air, up to the shining stars, just as we rise through the water to see the lands of Earth. So men rise up to beautiful places unknown, which we shall never see. Why weren't we given an immortal soul? the little mermaid asked sadly. I would gladly give up my three hundred years if I could be a human for only a day. You mustn't think about that, said the old lady. We fare much more happily and are much better off than the folk up there. Can't I do anything at all to win an immortal soul? No, her grandmother answered, Not unless a human being loved you so much that you meant more to him than his father and mother. If his every thought and his whole heart cleave to you, so that he would lest a priest join his right hand to yours, and would promise to be faithful here and throughout all eternity. Then his soul would dwell in your body, and you would share in the happiness of mankind. He would give you a soul and yet keep his own, but that can never come to pass. The little mermaid tried to forget a prince, but her thoughts always strayed towards the surface. I shall visit the sea witch of whom I have always been so afraid. Perhaps she will be able to advise me and help me. The little mermaid set out toward the whirlpools that raged in front of the witch's dwelling. She had never gone that way before. No flowers grew there nor any seaweed. Between these tumultuous whirlpools, she had to thread her way to reach the witch's waters, and then for a long stretch the only trail lay through a hot, seething mire. Beyond it, her house lay in the middle of a weird forest where all the trees and shrubs were polyps, half animal and half plant. They looked like a hundred-headed snakes growing out of the soil. All their branches were long, slimy arms with fingers like wiggling worms. They squirmed joint by joint from their roots to their outermost tentacles, and whatever they could lay a hold of, they twined around and never let go. The little mermaid was terrified and stopped at the edge of the forest. Her heart thumped with fear and she nearly turned back. But then she remembered the prince and the souls that men have, and she summoned her courage. She bound her long flowing locks closely around her head so that the polyps could not catch hold of them, folded her arms across her chest, and darted through the water. She saw that every one of them held something. The white bones of men who had perished at sea and sunk to these depths could be seen in the polyps' arms, ships' rudders, seamen's chests, and the skeletons of land animals who had also fallen. But the most ghastly sight of all was a mermaid whom they had caught and strangled. She reached a large muddy clearing in the forest where big fat water snakes slithered about, showing their foul yellowish bellies. In the middle of this clearing was a house built of the bones of shipwrecked men, and there sat the sea witch. She called the ugly fat water snakes her little chickabeadies and let them crawl and sprawl around her spongy bosom. I know exactly what you want, said the sea witch. It is very foolish of you. But just the same, you shall have your way, for it will bring you to grief, my proud princess. You want to get rid of your fish tail and have two props instead so that you can walk about like a human creature, and have the young prince fall in love with you and win him and an immortal soul besides. At this the witch gave such a loud cackling laugh that the toad and the snakes were shaken to the ground where they lay writhing. The sea witch spoke, I shall make you a potion, and before sunrise you must swim to the shore with it. Seat yourself on dry land and drink the potion down. Then your tail will divide and shrink until it becomes what the people on earth call a pair of shapely legs. But it will hurt. It will feel as if a sharp sword slashed through you. Everyone who sees you will say that you are the most graceful human being they have ever laid eyes on. But for you, you will keep your gliding movement and no dancer will be able to tread as lightly as you, but every step you take will feel as if you were treading upon knife blades so sharp that blood must flow. I am willing to help you, but are you willing to suffer all this? Yes, the little mermaid said in a trembling voice, as she thought of the prince and of gaining a human soul. Remember, said the witch, once you have taken a human form, you can never be a mermaid again, and you can never come back through the waters to your sister's or to your father's palace, and if you do not win the love of the prince so completely that for your sake he forgets his father and mother, cleaves to you with his every thought in his whole heart, then you will win no immortal soul. If he marries someone else, your heart will break, and on the very next morning you will become foam of the sea. I shall take that risk, said the little mermaid, but she turned as pale as death. Also, you will have to pay me, said the witch, and it is no trifling price that I am asking. You have the sweetest voice of anyone down here at the bottom of the sea, and while I don't doubt that you would like to captivate the prince with it, you must give this voice to me. But if you take my voice, said the little mermaid, what will be left to me? Your lovely form, the witch told her, your gliding movements, and your eloquent eyes. With these you can easily enchant a human heart. Well, have you lost your courage? Take out your tongue, and I shall cut it off. I'll have my price, and you shall have the potion. The little mermaid agreed, and the sea witch began the potion, using her blood to bind, and the little mermaid was soon on her way to the surface. The little mermaid swallowed the bitter, fiery potion, and it was if a two-edged sword struck through her frail body. She swooned away and lay there as if she was dead. When the sun rose over the sea, she awoke and felt a flash of pain, but directly in front of her stood the handsome young prince. The prince asked who she was and how she came to be there. Her deep blue eyes looked at him tenderly, but very sadly, for she could not speak. Then he took her hand and led her into his palace. Every footstep felt as if she were walking on the blades and points of sharp knives, just as the witch had foretold. But she gladly endured it. She moved as lightly as a bubble as she walked beside the prince, but he and all who saw her marveled at the grace of her gliding walk. She charmed everyone, and especially the prince, who called her his dear little family. She danced time and time again, and every time she touched the floor she felt as if she were treading on sharp edged steel. The prince said that he would keep her with him always. At home in the princess palace, while the others slept at night, she would go down to the broad marble steps to cool her burning feet in the cold sea water, and then she would recall those who lived beneath the sea. One night her sisters came by, arm in arm, seeming sadly when she held out her hands towards him. They knew who she was. They came to see her every night after that, and once far, far out to the sea she saw her old grandmother, who had not been up to the surface in many a year, and with her was the sea king. With his crown upon his head, they stretched out their hands to her. Day after day she became more dear to the prince who loved her, but he never thought of making her his queen. Now rumors arose that the prince was to wed the beautiful daughter of a neighboring king. When the ship was ready to sail, and the prince and his little family boarded the beautiful vessel, in the clear moonlight, when everyone except the man at the helm was asleep, she sat on the side of the ship gazing down through the transparent water, and fancied she could catch glimpses of her father's palace. The next morning the ship came to the harbor of the neighboring king's glorious city. The little mermaid was curious to see how beautiful this princess was. It was you, the prince cried. You were the one who saved me when I lay like a dead man beside the sea. He clasped the blushing bride of his choice in his arms. Oh, I am happier than a man should be. He turned to his family, his smile brighter than she had ever seen. Her prince had mistook her for this princess. The little mermaid kissed his hand and felt her heart beginning to break. For the morning after his wedding day would see her dead and turned to watery foam. The very next evening the prince and princess were wed on the deck of the ship, and the little mermaid knew that this was the last evening that she would ever see him, for whom she had sacrificed her lovely voice and would never see her home or family again. While he knew nothing of all these things, it was the last night that she would breathe the same air as him, or look upon deep waters or the star fields of the blue sky. A never-ending night without thought and without dreams awaited her, who had no soul and could not get one. The merry making lasted through the night, and she laughed and danced despite the thought of the death she carried in her heart. A hush came over the ship, only the helmsman remained on the deck, as the little mermaid leaned her white arms on the bulboard and looked at the east to the sea at the first red hint of daybreak, for she knew that the first flash of the sun would strike her dead. And then she saw her sisters rise up among the waves. They were as pale as she, and there was no sign of their lovely long hair. It had all been cut off. We have given our hair to the witch, they said, so that she should send you help and save you from death tonight. She gave us a knife. Here it is. See the sharp blade? Before the sun rises you must strike it into the princess's heart. And when his warm blood bathes your feet, they will grow back together and become a fishtail. Then you will be a mermaid again, able to come back to us in the sea and live out your three hundred years before you die and turn into dead sea salt foam. Make haste or you will die before sunrise. Our old grandmother is so grief stricken that her white hair is failing fast. Kill the prince and come back to us. Hurry, hurry. See the red glow in the heavens, and just a few minutes the sun will rise and you will die. The little mermaid parted the purple curtains of the tent and saw the beautiful bride sleeping with her head on the prince's breast. The mermaid bent down and kissed his forehead. She looked at the sky, fast reddening for the break of dead. She looked at the sharp knife and again tore her eyes towards the prince, who in his sleep murmured the name of his bride. His thoughts were all for her, and the knife blade trembled in the mermaid's hand, and then she flung it far, far out in the waves, with eyes already glazing, she looked once more at the prince, hurled herself over the bulk waters into the sea, and felt her body dissolve in foam. The sun rose up from the waters, its beams fell, warmly and kindly upon the chill sea foam, and the little mermaid did not feel the hand of death. In the bright sunlight overhead she saw hundreds of fair, urethreal beings. They were so transparent that through them she could see the ship's white sails and the red clouds in the sky. Their voices were sheer music, but so spirit-like that no human ear could detect the sound. Just as no eye on earth could see their forms. Without wings they floated as light in the air itself. The little mermaid discovered that she was shaped like them, and she was gradually rising out of the foam. You poor little mermaid, you have tried with your whole heart to do this. Your suffering and your loyalty have raised you up into the realm of airy spirits. And now in the course of 300 years, you may earn your good deeds a soul that will never die. Mermaid lore is as deep as the ocean floor, enchanting men and conjuring tales all over the globe. Mermaids are sighted all over the world and seen in just about every type of body of water. But are they real?

SPEAKER_00 20:59

Welcome to Rebel Road. I'm Mary. And I'm Haley, and thank you for joining us for our first episode of season two here at the Rebel Road Podcast. Mary, you're supposed to follow in on that. Can you hear me?

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Mary's exhausted from the very long storm. It's our second season, Haley.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Can you believe that? Wow. Yeah, I know. Mary, when we first sat down and we started thinking about doing a podcast and all the different things that we wanted to talk about, we didn't really do a whole lot of framework. And I never even thought about seasons, but here we are, and I'm excited. Today we are starting our first part on the water or the marine kingdom. And in this episode, we're gonna discuss one of my favorite things to chat about, which is mermaids. And let me just say, Mary, I had not heard that full video. Version in the opening story that you share. It really followed what we think of as that Disney movie, The Little Mermaid, except for that ending. A lot different than what most people think. I personally, I always think about when I was a kid, the movie Splash with Daryl Hannah and the mermaid. I remember being a small girl sitting in the bathtub begging my mom to bring me the salt so I could turn into a mermaid.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Yeah, I know. A lot of people, when we think of mermaids, we think our thoughts tend to go straight to aerial. Beautiful little sea creatures. We've all been obsessed with mermaids at some point in our lives. They're just a part of our culture. They've always been around. And when Disney did The Little Mermaid, it's it seems like they just exploded. And I just want to say, I know our opening story was a lot longer than normal, but I think storytelling has really become something that our listeners really love. And well, we kind of enjoy doing it. And this was an abbreviated version of the Hans Christian Andersen's The Little Mermaid, which he wrote back in 1837. So, guys, if you haven't read it, go ahead and find it somewhere and read it. It's actually really, really long. And of course, that was the inspiration behind Disney's Little Mermaid. Haley, you said it. If you have recently watched The Little Mermaid and you heard me reading that, you would get those scenes flashing in your head. I mean, Disney captured it pretty good, except for that horrible ending where she actually turned to foam or, you know, she died. And that was the inspiration behind Disney's Little Mermaid. And actually, did you realize that that was released way back in November of Wait For It, Haley, 1989?

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Yeah, back in the 1900s. I wouldn't have thought that it was quite that long ago. I would have said maybe the early 90s, but you know, 1989, that was about 36 years ago. And nothing like starting my day strong and feeling old right out of the gate, Mary. It's kind of wild to think about that.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

But Haley, when thinking about mermaids, this version feels, even though it's a made-up story, it feels real to me in some ways. She dies, she doesn't get the prints, and the entire horror of her hidden pain every time she uses her legs. I mean, yeah, that's real witchcraft there.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Something. Yeah, I I that's a good point. And let's talk about the no soul thing. That part I find very interesting because let's think about it. What are mermaids? If we take that hybrid route, which would be the result of angel DNA mingling with human, and I guess maybe some fish DNA that will produce the hybrid, which, as we know, are Nephilim. And then Nephilim, as we've said in previous episodes, they don't have souls. And I don't know, Mary, I may be looking at that a little harder uh than I should, but in the 1800s, I think any mixed creature abhorrent to nature, it was viewed as not having a soul. Anything not made by God didn't have a soul.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

I actually found that no soul thing interesting as well, mainly because it's not a concept that Mr. Anderson just came up with. Back in 1530, there was a Swiss alchemist, Heracles, and he wrote this book. Um, it's translated Nymphs, Sylphs, Pygmies, and Salamanders. Its real name is, I'm gonna push this, Lieber di Nymphus. And anyway, uh it's considered to be a real book. During the 16th century, alchemists and physicians they didn't view natural spirits as fairy tales, they treated them as real physical parts of the natural world. And this separation of the fantastical and science that we have today really only began in the late 17th century and became solid only in the 19th century. So, according to this book that Pericles wrote, which he was trying to write to create a scientific and this theological guide to explain how God organized the universe, Periclesius did not think elementals were ghosts or demons. He wrote that they were flesh and blood creatures who ate, drank, and could breed, but simply existed in our different plane for elements than humans. So Paraclesius categorized natural spirits by the four physical elements. And salamanders were of the fire. And that is fascinating to me. I don't know why, but it really is. The elemental kingdom. Now, his book suggests that these beings live alongside humans but lack an immortal soul, meaning they simply vanish into nothingness when they die. But he did introduce the ideal that a water spirit can only gain an immortal soul by marrying a human, well, any spirit, but it all ties to love and an immortal bond. Because humans possess soul granted by God, intermarrying with the human allows the spirit to graft into the divine connection and share in human salvation.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Isn't that wild? That is wild to think about. I mean, humankind has been obsessed with the supernatural for really what seems like ages. And we know knowledge and information, it gets written off and really kind of lost over time, especially as new leaders take over and and science is always taking the wonder out of our world. But we can't dismiss the stories and the written works. We just can't think of those as dumb thinking and fairy tales. There's always truth in those stories. So let's dive in, Mary. We all know what a mermaid is, half fish, half human, and somewhere from the waist down it differs by tales. Sometimes they can be half octopus, which is wild, or maybe half something else marine life. But where do we first see tales of fish people in the timeline of humanity? Can we narrow that down? That is kind of hard to pin down.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

And I think Inky, which we've talked about before, he was also known as E. Now, E was the Mesopotamian god of wisdom, crafts, fresh subterranean waters, magic, and incantations. And he is classified as an Anunnaki. Now, he was depicted several ways. In Mesopotamian art, E is a bearded god who wears a horn cape and long robes. Cylinder seals are often pictured around him, surrounded by a flowing stream with fish swimming inside it, representing the subterranean waters of the Abzu. Now, Abzu is his kingdom, which is located in the ocean beneath the earth. So the waters below the waters. Now he's also been depicted, and this is really wild, as a half-goat or half fish creature. And E is also the god noted for witchcraft, and his sages or his priests were often depicted as men in fish robes. They were called the Abkalu, and they dwelt in the Abzu, which is the kingdom underneath the waters, with E, who would sometimes take the form of a half man and half fish. So this is our first fish man hybrid all the way back to Mesopotamia, which is the earliest known civilization in humanity.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

So, mermaids, they've been here since the beginning. And again, we are seeing that link to the Anunnaki, which are the gods of old, or what some claim are the fallen angels. And that is a total circle back to the Nephilim, which are the genetic children of the fallen angels. We've talked about this. Go back to season one, some of our earlier episodes, and you'll find some of those details. But those children of the fallen angels by humans, and again, the Bible says they mated with all of creation. And that is a really disturbing visual. If we look in the book of Enoch, first Enoch chapter 19, verse 2, it says, and the women of the angels who went astray will become sirens. And before we get too far in, and this is a two-part, maybe a three-part, we like to talk. So, friends, I'm we're probably gonna leave you hanging today, but the ocean is vast, and we have so much to talk about. But let's side note on sirens real fast. Sirens are not mermaids, they do not have fish bodies, and somewhere, somehow, they merged. Sirens are women with bird legs and sometimes bird bodies and wings. Now, they do lure men to their deaths, and some mermaids do this as well, but mermaids are not in the Bible. Enoch mentions sirens. Again, sirens are not mermaids. Now, the Bible mentions Dagon, who is a fish god, and we are going, we're gonna dig deeper into sea gods in the next episode. And let me just mention this in the Babylonian Talmud, which is Jewish texts, they do mention mermaids. It's Rashi's commentary. Now this explains, I'm gonna butch this, Benayama, and it's a you it's using this old French word serine, which is siren or mermaid, and it's describing them as sea beings that are half human and half fish. So there is that siren connection, but historically, a siren is a bird woman hybrid. Both were dangerous, alluring female entities associated with water and enchanting songs. Now, sirens would sit on rocks and cliff faces in dangerous waters, like what we read about in the Odyssey. And mermaids are in the water, okay? I just wanted to clear that part up. But back to E, our first god of water. I don't want to sidestep the magic, Mary. You you said he was also the god of witchcraft. And mermaids and witchcraft are kind of intertwined as well. I think you mentioned that, Mary. I mean, we saw that in our little mermaid story with the sea hag. Yeah, witchcraft and water.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

Water is a reflective surface, and just that alone makes it powerful. But if we're linking witchcraft to mermaids, we are looking at what? Sea witches who would be powerful elemental rulers with principalities of their own and mermaids kind of like their subjects. But let's look at something they may have in common. If you picture a mermaid, what are they doing? Some bathing on rocks and what? Usually they're like combing their hair and they're looking in a mirror, right? Almost every mermaid in medieval depictions and older depictions are all holding combs and mirrors. Wow, that it yeah, that is ah, you're right. They're always combing their hair. Yeah. Witches use mirrors as a serious tool for reflection, portal magic, and beauty glamours. It's also part of seduction, the luring of men. And a comb. Well, this is a crazy one. The act of combing your hair symbolizes bringing order to chaos, channeling energy, or making a sacred transition. It could hypnotize and cause memory loss if you're a witch. The comb, if taken, could grant someone power over the mermaid. And combs, they're just oddly a weird, unknown, powerful tool in witchcraft. The comb is linked to hair, which is very powerful in the world of witchcraft, and that's linked to power and danger. And some really superstitious people will not let strangers cut their hair, and they will bag up their own hair and they will dispose of it properly because they're afraid of somebody getting a hold of the hair. So that's pretty wild. So, as a tool connected to appearance and beauty, a comb can help add power to a working of love. And we all know the lure. Mermaids lure men into the water to drown them. They are seductresses, and their deaths are sacrifices.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

If we go back to the Little Mermaid, it was only as dead men that they reached the kingdom of the sea. The mermaids tried to seduce the men to come and see the beauty of their kingdom. So, okay, mermaids use magic, they have powers as seduction. Most are depicted as beautiful. This is our classic mermaid. But let's talk a bit about other mermaids. Mermaids are found all over the world in so many different cultures. Now, Mary, let me run through a few of these. I'm just going to read this from a website. It's it's yokai.com, y-o-k-a-i.com about the Japanese mermaid, the Ningyo. Okay. I'm gonna read this straight from the website. Unlike the mermaids of the Atlantic Ocean and the Mediterranean Sea, Nino from the Pacific Ocean and the Sea of Japan are hideous to behold. Instead of seductive sirens, they are otherworldly nightmares. Nino are more fish than human. They can have anything from ugly, deformed, fish-like faces to entire human torsos with long bony fingers and sharp claws. Nino range in size from a human child to a large seal. The traditional Japanese mermaid is more beast than beauty. Ninyo sightings go back to the earliest written histories of Japan. The first recorded mermaid sightings in Japan are found in the Nihon Shokai, which is one of the oldest books of classical Japanese history and dates back to 619 CE. The flesh of a niño is believed to grant eternal life and youth to those who eat it. However, this meal carries a danger that most people unwillingly risk. Nino can place a powerful curse on humans who try to wound or capture them. Some legends tell of entire towns that were swallowed by earthquakes or tidal waves after a foolish fisherman brought home a niño in one of his catches. While their grotesque appearance and supernatural powers make them an intriguing subject, Nino are best avoided at all costs. Mary, what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 37:46

That's that's not a mermaid I'd like to see. It reminds me of when Columbus wrote about seeing a mermaid, and he said it's not half as beautiful as they are painted, since in some ways they have a face like a man. He wrote that in one of his journals. But also, who wants to eat a mermaid? Bunch of siccos running around out there.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

You know, there was a recent TikTok, Marie, that claimed the elites were eating mermaids. There were these secret dinner parties at 50,000 a plate. So if they are drinking baby blood, which we know for sure, in fact, that they are, so if they're drinking baby blood, why not a little mermaid sushi as well? There's got to be some reason why these folks are not aging, and some even appear to be aging backwards. It's not just by cloning, but as we know, I like to get off topic. So I'm gonna take it back to some different mermaid legends. In Ireland, we have murrows. Now, female murrows are like your typical mermaid, beautiful from the waist up, fish waist down, with a few tweaks. They have green hair and webbed fingers. They're also shape shifters. I think that's just crazy. They have these red caps that, if removed, they can stay on land, but their fingers and their toes remain webbed. Another little thing that they can shift into tiny, hornless cows, thus the term sea cow. And I think that's kind of cute. That's a cute part of the story. But male murrows. Yeah, the male muros, they're horrifying and often depicted as hideous and aggressive creatures. They typically feature scaled green skin, these pig-like eyes, a red nose, jagged pointed teeth, and hair like seaweed. And the legends describe them as deeply bitter and reclusive.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Marrows kind of remind me of what an explorer John Smith wrote about in 1614, Haley. You are coming up with all these. In his words, he saw a beautiful green-haired woman swimming in the water and was by no means unattractive. And as he watched and started to fall in love with her beauty, she turned to dive and he was shocked to see that she was a mermaid. Then we have a British explorer and seal hunter, James Woodell, who was up in the Antarctic, and he reported that one of his crew members swore under oath to seeing a human-like form with long green hair and a tail resembling a seal. I mean, this makes sense. If you're a mermaid, be a mermaid with green hair. Go for it.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

You ever have green hair, Mary? I I know you like to dabble in the hair color game.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

If they had the hair products that they have now, when I was younger, I absolutely would have had green hair at one time. Now, my daughter, she had blue highlights that faded to green once, and we were in the ocean and we were laughing that she was a mermaid when she had those. So did you I don't I don't think I've ever seen you with crazy hair, Haley, but have you ever had green hair?

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Well, the colored hair looks good on some folks. I am more of just the all-natural approach, but again, I think it looks lovely on some people. But back to our mermaids, in Norway, they have the Finn folk who makes humans their slaves. I found that interesting. Now, skipping over to Russia, they have Rosulka, who they're not traditional mermaids, as they're not born like that, but they are more of the spirits of drowned women or unbaptized babies. So these are dangerous water spirits or nymphs. They do not have fishtails. Instead, they're typically depicted as pale, beautiful, long-haired maidens who rise from the rivers and the lakes. It's really restless souls of young women who died an unnatural or violent death, often by drowning due to, let's say, an unrequited love or a betrayal, something along those lines. Now, if you're into Greek mythology, we can also hit up some ancient Greek myths and talk about Nereides. And these were it was 50 sea nymph daughters of Nereus, the old man of the sea. And they were goddesses of the sea's rich bounty and protectors of sailors and fishermen. And it's really coming to the aid of those in distress. Now, the Nereetes were depicted in ancient art as these beautiful young maidens, sometimes running with small dolphins or like fish in their hands, or even riding on the back of dolphins and other sea creatures. Now, they weren't half fish, half women. These were beautiful human-looking women who lived and breathed under the water. And I just gotta say, I love that they ride the dolphins. And Mary, you know me. Can we get off topic again? This is the last time in the episode, I promise, but we have to touch on Gerald.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

Well, you know, what kind of Water Kingdom episode would it be if we didn't talk about Gerald? And for anyone out there who doesn't know, let's start with some context, Haley. Tell the tale.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

Gotcha. Okay, now this is a little bit of a dated story at this point. I think a lot of people have heard of it, but we might have some friends out there who have not. But back in March of this year, there was a Florida man. Uh, that says all we need to know right there, but there was a Florida man, Ricky Hollowell, claimed a dolphin named Gerald kidnapped him while he was in the ocean and forced him to work on an underground city. Now, this is the report, okay? Fort Myers, Florida. Florida man found sunburn and disoriented on Sanibel Causeway, claiming. He was kidnapped by dolphins and forced to build an underwater city. Lee County Sheriff's Deputies responded to the Sanibel Causeway early Monday after a motorist reported a man standing on the shoulder, soaking wet and drawing blueprints in the sand. According to the police report, Ricky James Hollowell, 33, was found barefoot, severely sunburned, and wearing only swim trunks. He told deputies he had been taken against his will by a pot of dolphins three days ago and forced to work on what he called an underwater construction project. According to Hollowell and the police report, Hollowell claimed the dolphins approached him while he was swimming off Fort Myers Beach and escorted him to a site approximately 40 feet below the surface where they needed help building structures. He told officers the dolphins communicated through a series of clicks that he eventually learned to interpret, and that the project foreman was a dolphin he referred to as Gerald. When asked how he breathed underwater for three days, he said, Gerald handled that. I didn't ask questions. You don't question Gerald. He had drawn an elaborate blueprint. He had drawn an elaborate blueprint in the sand that deputies described as detailed enough to be concerning, including what appeared to be condos, a town square, and a recreation center. He told officers he was released because the dolphins were satisfied with his work, but that Gerald said they'd be back for phase two. Now, the responding deputy Sean Oakley told reporters, I've been with the sheriff's office 11 years. The blueprints were the part that got me. He had zoning. Now Hollowell was transported for medical evaluation. Gerald was, of course, unavailable for comment. Now, some men build cities on land. Ricky Hollow claims he built one underwater for dolphins. And honestly, the blueprints were hard to argue with. That is like one of the best stories ever.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

And sad news, Snopes says it was satire, a product of something called dude humor. And people went nuts for this story because, well, it's a fun story, and you can just imagine it being true. And people want it to be true, I think. There's what they say, you you just put enough disinformation out there and you think the whole story is fake. Well, maybe if you put a lot of disinformation out there, the whole story is actually really true.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Yeah, say what you want to say. I'm holding my I'm I'm not, but I am holding my breath for the phase two story.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Now, a lot of people are hitting the it's illegal to talk to dolphins lying hard after this because maybe dolphins could tell us everything if we learn how to talk to them, like our boy there did, Hollowell. But talking to dolphins is actually not explicitly outlawed by name, but it can be illegal under the Marine Mammal Protection Act. So if your action sounds or if you're too loud out there in the water or you disrupt stress or change the natural behavior of animals, then it becomes illegal and punishable. But that doesn't seem to apply to giant commercial ships. So, Haley, modern mermaid sightings, what do you think about those? Are there any that really just stand out to you with the modern mermaid sightings?

SPEAKER_00 47:45

You know, Mary, it's really hard because now, of course, AI and everyone says they came out with AI so that way we couldn't tell what was real or fake. But recently I've been seeing a lot about what I think is that niyo in Japan. You don't know if the videos are real or not, but it really makes you think about these historical facts and stories. But before AI, there are the photos of Jeff Leecher that he took in Kawaii Point back in 1998. Now, Jeff was a dive master and an underwater photographer, your dream area. So he was just out like a normal day. And let me read his words from an interview that he gave. These are his words. We were on our way out to the point when a school of dolphins started following the boat, playing in our wake. Suddenly, one of the men on the port side starts yelling and pointing. I couldn't believe what I saw. There, not 10 feet from the bow, was what looked like a nude woman. She had long flowing hair and one of the most beautiful faces I've ever seen. But there's no way a human being could be swimming so fast. She was keeping right up with the dolphins. Then she leapt into the air and my heart almost gave out on me. The entire lower half of her was covered with scales and tapered back into a huge fishtail. She jumped once more, then disappeared under the surface. Now, if that if that was not enough, Mary, quoting Leecher, he claimed that the comely mermaid was to visit them yet again. And here's some more of his words. About an hour later, we arrived at the point and we were diving. I was photographing some colorful fish with my underwater camera. Suddenly, I felt something brush against my right leg. She shot by me like a streak of lightning, then turned and came back past me, swimming the other way. I just aimed the camera and started snapping pictures. I kept shooting as she broke for the surface and swam away. As we always do, we will post these photos that we're talking about in our social media so you guys can take a look at it. And honestly, Mary, if they had been taken recently, we might be sitting here trying to debunk them. But these were back in the 90s. So before AI. Leecher's pictures, they were examined at three distinguished photography labs, all of whom alleged at the time that the images had not been tampered with. Now, Jack finished his interview with these words. I feel very lucky that I'm the one to finally prove to the world what people here have known for half a century. The Kawhi Point Mermaid is real.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

And it's so funny because you're right. People are always like, there's a photo. Is there a video? But then it's not real. Then you produce a video and they're like, oh no, that's fake. And now with AI and the advancement in camera availability, I mean, we all carry cameras in our pockets. And these cameras are all very good cameras. If you get a good clear photo or video of it, it becomes, no, no, that's just AI. You just made that up. People aren't going to believe anything anymore unless it happens to them, unless they see it themselves. And I just think they're always going to try to explain it away. And it doesn't help you when you have documentaries put out by channels like the Animal Planet that aren't documentaries at all, but docudramas. And people get confused into thinking that new evidence has been found and it's all real. And then they immediately feel duped when they find out no, that was like a satirical thing. And their walls go up and then they just don't believe anything anymore. And in case you're curious, Animal Planet did put out a docudrama called The Body Found about mermaids. It was called The Body Found. And then they did a second one called Um New Evidence. And they had very tiny, tiny, tiny disclaimers in the beginning that say no evidence of aquatic humanoids have ever been found. But people watched these and got really excited because they thought that it was proof of mermaids' existence, but it was very misleading. So this leans kind of into our take on things. A little disinformation spoils the whole thing. 98% of it could be true, but you throw that 2% in and immediately you get false flags all over the place. And so they just say the whole thing's not true, throw it all out. And so, with that said, there have been videos and photos that I have seen that I think would be real. There's that fisherman who's always in the deep sea and he's been filming the mermaids that follow the wake of his vote, and you can hear them singing. I think that guy's credible.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

Think I agree, Mary. If you just look at the ocean, 80% of it has never been explored. That is huge. We can't say what is in something or not in something when we have never explored it to its fullest. How arrogant is it to say that? Science likes to say that mermaids can't be real because the human part of a mermaid couldn't stand the cold or the pressures of the deep ocean. But who is it to say that it's a human? They might just look like us, or maybe even to those darker legends, they don't at all. And they can use the glamour magic and make you think that they do look like us, right? All I'm saying is science has not discovered everything yet. We have to be careful of the dogma of science and the ego of humans who think we're always right because we're humans. But let's go back. The first civilization thought that there were mermaids, fish creatures, civilizations that have branched off over centuries. They all have mermaid cultures, water spirits, water gods, every single one of them. And I'm not going to say they don't exist. I will say we don't quite understand what they are.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

Yeah, we started on witchcraft and we got sidetracked, but in Africa and the Caribbean and even the Americas, there is Mommy Water. And she is a powerful and ancient water spirit, often depicted as a mermaid with a fishtail with a serpent wrapped around her body. You can always tell it's Mama Water because she has a snake around her neck. Now, a beautiful, alluring woman with long hair and hypnotic charm. And you know what? She is worshipped over there. And I mean worshipped heavily there in Africa and Haiti. Honored by worship through music, dance, and offerings near rivers and seas to ask for good fortune, fertility, and protection. She holds the power to manipulate the oceans and rivers and possesses the ability to transform in order to seduce and mesmerize humans with her alluring beauty. There are hundreds of stories of men walking into the ocean and just disappearing and then coming back out of the water weeks or months later. And I believe there's absolutely something definitely going on in the water kingdom and in the deep oceans. And we've just gotten started on exploring these mysteries, Haley. And I do believe in mermaids.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

Yeah, there's a hundred percent there's something going on with the witchcraft and the water and in that deep, deep water. Friends, we hope you will join us again for our next episode as we wrap up our conversation about mermaids and then launch into sea gods, goddesses, and we'll explore the connection of wealth to the water kingdom and interestingly, how the Bible views the water kingdom. It might surprise you. But if you're here with us, season two and you're loving the podcast, please hit that subscribe button. We have moved to a bi-weekly format, and we will chat with you again real soon. So until next time, keep it weird and pull it back to Jesus, especially if you hear a mermaid calling. Yeah, don't fall over into the water. Bye. Bye.